My tweets

Jul. 22nd, 2011 12:00 pm
sombrefan: (Default)
[personal profile] sombrefan

Date: 2011-07-22 11:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
Fugh. How is it a dead week? Is this sarcasm? It sounds so much like your normal tone. And I don't see the purple font...

Date: 2011-07-22 11:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
It's me gently taking the mickey. I would love if Twitter could do purple font.

Date: 2011-07-22 11:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
My sarcasm detector is broken. *kicks it*

I'm looking forward to more Buffy comics and Ringer coverage later on today.

Date: 2011-07-22 11:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
I'm looking forward to a decent write-up of yesterday's Buffy and LGBT fandom panel. The tweets I saw looked good. There's a poster session on the Saturday that critically looks at Buffy's bisexuality in Season 8.

Date: 2011-07-22 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angearia.livejournal.com
Believe Buffyfest has video for the Buffy/LGBT panel; just haven't posted it yet.

There's a poster session on the Saturday that critically looks at Buffy's bisexuality in Season 8.

Now that sounds interesting.

Date: 2011-07-22 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
Apparently we're getting more male characters for Season 9.

Date: 2011-07-22 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
There were complaints in Season 8 that there wasn't enough male characters. I guess they're listening to the feedback.

Date: 2011-07-22 01:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com
Of course. Economy beats imagination - since Oliver Cromwell. I'm just sad that after the missed opportunity of a global female narrative in season 8 the comics drift even more towards a male POV/audience. My bad.

Date: 2011-07-22 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
I thinking they're returning to the balance that the show had when it was on the air. To a large extent it was just Xander in Season 8.

Date: 2011-07-22 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com
I don't think there was balance on the show past season 3: Xander and Giles were, well, not "background material" but the main story was definitely Buffy and Willow (and Spike in season 7 - but that was more due to the absolute mess that was that season ;-)).

I would have liked to see the "Buffy story" (which is a female narrative even in intent) turned global, with literally thousands of slayers, empowered women.

"Mixed casts" and "male oriented casts" are a dime a dozen. I found it very refreshing to see a "mixed and female oriented cast" in pop culture.

In the end, "Last Gleaming" TPB cover says it all: Buffy and her boys. That's season 8.

But of course I'm well aware that this is only my preferred story and apparently I'm not even in the target audience. ;-)

Date: 2011-07-22 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
"In the end, "Last Gleaming" TPB cover says it all: Buffy and her boys. That's season 8."

I would disagree. I think for me and I suspect other people too, the three main male types on the show were the best friend, the mentor and the love interest and that was to a large extent portrayed throughout seasons 1-7. Season 8 didn't really refect that.


I would have liked to see the "Buffy story" (which is a female narrative even in intent) turned global, with literally thousands of slayers, empowered women.


I'm interested in what you mean by global. We saw slayers in LA street gangs, Japan, Italy and elsewhere. Do you mean something like the impact of enhanced women in a traditional patriarchal society?

Date: 2011-07-22 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com
Re: 1)

I don't disagree really, of course there were male characters on the show. They (their POV) just weren't stage and centre - the story was about Buffy (and Willow). And while season 8 started out that way (esp. Buffy + Willow), the male characters took centre stage (besides Buffy, obviously) pretty quickly, with all the accompanying tropes and clichées (including Xander's fridged girlfriend, Giles "hero death", Angel's huge role and Spike's "the cavalry is here" schtick), while all the women were shoved into the background (apart from Buffy, again).

I'm not saying season 8 is male centered, it is still Buffy centered. It has just more focus on Buffy's boys than the show ever had (past season 3, again). The TV show always had a "love interest", a "mentor", a "friend". Of course. But Buffy's story went far above that, the friendship between Buffy and Willow got so, so much more screen time and narrative than anything else. I liked that. This time, a lot of Buffy's problems stem from her relationships with her boys and i feel like I'm back in high school (albeit I admit, the latter half of the season plays a big part in my reception/uptake).

Re: 2)

By "global" I mean that on the TV show, we saw a story about one (two, if you count Willow) young woman trying to find her way and life in a hostile environment (a white, us-american middle class woman). Until season 7: That lone young woman creates a network, a group, finds solidarity. And that opened up so many huge possibilities to tell stories about a) more, diverse women fighting that fight ( a slayer from South Africa, perhaps? A middle aged slayer? A working class slayer?), their impact on themselves and the environment/society and b) their group/network, what they do differently and when/if they lean on "the old system" and so forth.

In short, it could have been a story about lots of different women, united (or not so united...) in their fight while still centered around that one woman who "founded" their sisterhood. Buffy. (And - again my uptake - season 8 did the opposite of that: It centered around Buffy's boys: The slayers are more or less generic background material, with one or two exceptions, while the boys move the whole narrative.)

Date: 2011-07-22 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
I don't think the boys did move the plot along by themselves. Buffy did a good enough job of that own her own and Willow played a major part in this in the present and the future and in between. Joss + time travel = not clear sometimes.

"In short, it could have been a story about lots of different women, united (or not so united...) in their fight while still centered around that one woman who "founded" their sisterhood. Buffy."

We got instead the reaction to this, from the US gov't and the media. But I think for some reason, we'll get more of what you're looking for in Season 9. Diverse slayers but now united against Buffy.


"The slayers are more or less generic background material, with one or two exceptions, "

I've rereading Season 8 in the last few days and I've noticed that the other Slayers are standing out a lot more. Satsu, Soledad, Renee, Kennedy, Simone, Fray & indeed the nameless Buffy decoy. They don't feel generic to me, they feel like individual characters with their own stories.

"the story was about Buffy (and Willow)."

Not Spike as well?

Date: 2011-07-22 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com
I don't think the boys did move the plot along by themselves. Buffy did a good enough job of that own her own and Willow played a major part in this in the present and the future and in between. Joss + time travel = not clear sometimes.

This is the internet, communication is sometimes hard. ;-)

I'll try again (and, obviously, you are allowed a different standpoint. Yes, I'm feeling generous today... ;-)):

Let's see Xander in season 6: Obviously, he had a huge impact on the plot, saving the world and all. But on the narrative? Not so much. That's a bit how i see Willow in season 8. Yes, there are important "Willow pieces" in season 8, but overall, it is about Buffy getting the smackdown by gov't (and Angel), falling for Xander and being rejected - which plays a huge part in her consorting with the enemy - then going on to consort with the enemy (being called back by Xander...) being "grounded" (as the Spuffies put it) by Spike and exposition-transported to the final action where Giles makes the all-important move which finally gets the Gordian knot cleaved in two. The empowered women as a group get two important scenes: getting killed in droves off-screen to get the Buffy/Angel action going (#32) and getting killed in droves on-screen to get the Buffy/Angel action going (#39). Hm.

Diverse slayers but now united against Buffy.

Yeah, all i ever wanted to see: Bitch fights depicted and written by three men. *sarcasm* Ok, that was mean of me, but really: they couldn't write/depict female solidarity (however disastrous/tragic that might turn out to be) but they'll gladly show bitch wars.

Perhaps the writer team will surprise me - but so far i'm not really thrilled by the outlook (which, again, is coloured by my "season-8-experience". Maybe there is learning from mistakes, after all...)

Satsu, Soledad, Renee, Kennedy, Simone, Fray & indeed the nameless Buffy decoy.

Status: unknown, dead, dead, divorced, dead, out of story, dead. I see a theme here...

Not Spike as well?

Short answer: No.

;-)

Slightly longer answer: Spike had a (prominent) story in season 7, yes. But then, season 7 was such a mess (i still love it, but it really was a mess) that the equally existing story of Buffy and Willow got lost in it. Which makes Spike's story stand out a bit more than it deserves, really, since his story at least was clearly visible (as meandering as it was at times).

In season 7 I at least can see Buffy's story, Willow's story, the Potentials'/slayers' story and the "Buffy and Willow story". It is not depicted prettily, and hidden under hubris - but it is there.

I hope this clears things a bit up and shows where I'm coming from.

Date: 2011-07-23 10:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com
Unfortunately Xander's plot development in Season 6 & 7 got severely limited by Nick's personal problems. Otherwise we would have had him killed and coming back as a big bad in S7 or Buffy's new love interest. Both were mooted at the time.

Did Buffy fall for Xander in Season 8? She got closer to him but I don't know if there was necessary a romantic overtone involved. It's not something I picked up on the discussion in Season 8 but it would make an interesting LJ entry on the matter.

"they couldn't write/depict female solidarity"

Female solidarity against their former leader? A battle of ideologies, sisterhood vs autocratic leadership?

"status: unknown, dead, dead, divorced, dead, out of story, dead. I see a theme here..."

Well they are Slayers. Their life is still short and not a happy one.

"I hope this clears things a bit up and shows where I'm coming from."

It does, and I think it'll be a case of never the twain when it comes to agreeing with each other but it's been a good conversation.


Date: 2011-07-23 10:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com
Did Buffy fall for Xander in Season 8?

Well the different vampire shipper factions will fight that notion nail and tooth, obviously. ;-)

But Xander is set up as Buffy's love interest for the season pretty much from the start (#2, starting with the cover and not ending with the content). Culminating in #31 (with the rejection, which is swiftly followed by outer space action).

it's been a good conversation.

Indeed. :-)

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